I know Ive mentioned this before, but we are getting close, and we really need this. How many of you have went into a modded server (on any game) then when returning to a pure server, been banned for "forgetting to remove" the mods? Im all for lifetime account/cd key banning, its a good thing, if done correctly. But this can also kill modding/mapping. Users are afraid to download maps/mods, for fear of getting banned. Also most admins won't use the maps/mods, because the anti-cheat won't protect modded servers. For Airborne, we need a system in place that allows us to send in our mods/maps for approval, by the anti-cheat program creators. Approved mods/maps, would carry a "punkbuster approved" tag, and could be used on any protected server. (or whatever anti-cheat they use.) Mods added to the approved list, could then be scanned by the anti-cheat, like any other game file. This would bring modding/mapping back into the mainstream. Also it would allow "by listing the mods/maps" some small protection for the mod creators, against wannbee's claiming your work as their own. A. "Approved" Mods/maps, could be downloaded without fear of banning. B. "Approved" Mods/maps, could be used on any server, while still keeping the anti-cheat protection active on your server. C. Listing "Approved" Mods/maps, would give some protection to modders, for their work.
Whatever it takes is fine with me. However, it would be my hope that by now EA uses another AC other than PB. It seems PB is too easily bypassed these days. So either PB needs to really step it up ..... or other providers of AC should be taken into consideration.
I would also like to maintain, as a server admin, my own approved file list. Then its possible to have new-customs and mods and still the AC is working. Only problem could be if someone then joines another server and gets kicked or worse banned for it.
Most mods, require server side files to work. So having a list on your server, is kinda redundant. The whole point of an "anti-cheat approved " list, is to make mods safe to DL, without fear of banning. If you want "clan only" mods, then simply get them approved. If you don't get your severside mods approved, you simply can't use the anti-cheat. (because the only real reason for running mods, and not getting them approved, is because you want cheats for your clan only, and not for the visitors.):shakeshead: :shakeshead: :shakeshead:
It'd be way too much work to have the AC creators continually maintaining a list of "ok" files, when majority of custom content is ok in comparison to the bad stuff out there. Waste of resources IMO.
Not necessarily. I use an optional client file on my server that contains custom models for add-on weapons/etc. Players who want to download it have access to additional items in the game. This file doesn't effect gameplay for the client when they are on another server. This file changes frequently and I have no interest in submitting it for anyone's approval. I also have a custom skins file that is only available for my members. That isn't available for public download or "approval" at all. What I would rather see is the game simply ignoring any add-on (.pk3?) that the client has if its not on the approved list for that particular server. That way it doesn't matter what it contains, and the client doesn't have to remember to move files in and out all the time. And individual admins can decide what they want allow on their server without having to submit to anyone else's approval process. I would also like to see a real screenshot implemented. One that shows what picture is actually sent to the monitor. It should be automatically sent real-time directly to an admin, so he can check it without having to leave the game.
DMW does this, but only for custom maps, not any other mods, and that is proberbly how it will stay sadly. I can imagine the troubles of veryfying a mod doesn't give the player any advantage over a stock player. To be realy completley 100% fair you would have to check the length of the gun, sounds, if it is easyer to see (colours) etc etc. Anyway, I thought punkbuster only checks for hacks, it doesn't check for mods.
This opens the door, for ""shifty"" clans, to have a cham skin mod, available to their team only.:suspect: Im not saying "your clan" does anything like that, but we all know there are those that do. I don't like the Idea of waiting for mod/map approval, any more than you do. But I would prefer a short wait for approval any day, over servers loaded with more friggin cheats, ruining yet another MOH title. Cheats suck the fun out of a game...(just like the unlock crap in BF2!!) I have all but quit playing any of the MOH titles, because of it. Heck, if the anti-cheat team can maintain a cheats list, why would a "allowed list" be any harder? The list would not nessicerily be approved by the Anti-cheat group themselves, but approval could be done by mod site leaders, and submitted to the list. I just want a fun game, with as little cheating as possible, don't you?:beerbang: Besides, on a private server, you could run any mods/maps you desired, approved or not, you just wouldnt be able to run the anti-cheat. Don't water down the anti-cheat, Lets have a real anti-cheat system this time.
im not too sure about having to get your mod aproved before you can use it. that just sounds like a big PITA. id rather be able to make a mod and use it with no problems, and not have to wait a long time for it to be aproved(most likely again for the 100th time) when ever i want to make an adjustment to it.
Why not just have (like in cod) mod directories... When you go to a server u download their mods to their own mod directory, and when u go to a different server those files dont get loaded making u those not effect how "pure" u are.
Your still overlooking the private mods, used by shifty clans. These mods need to be looked at, to weed out the ones that give advantage to their clan members. No Im not talking about clan skins, and such. Lets say for instance, that on Ned Q's server, he allows a client/server mod that gives the mod user 1000 round clips, instead of the normal 30 round clip. If this mod was public, it would be fine. Now lets say that Ned "only" allows {Q}clan members access to this mod. If you play on Neds server, you would get owned, because you have only 30 round clips, and not because their clan had any more skill. Yes, yes, yes, its his server, but its still very clearly a cheat. Its important to have an anti-cheat, that protects "firmly" the servers, and the players it is used on. If you want to play on a protected server, use approved mods. If you want to host any other mods, do so, you just cant use the anti-cheat. On unprotected servers, you could use anything the admin will put up with.:beerbang:
i could care less...I just hope its not PB they use...im with HeadHunter and Giffe on this one... isn't that controlled server-side anyways? so then it wouldn't matter if the client had the mod or not he would still have 1000 round clip
The saying is "couldn't" care less, otherwise what you said implies you care, and that there is less you could care. Jonas I think you've completely missed the mark on this one. First off, and I want to get this off my chest - DMW is not a good anti-cheat system. Does it prevent cheats? Maybe; it's beatable, but I'm sure a lot is prevented. However the way it goes about preventing the cheats is absolutely horrid, and would sooner kill the modding community than it would protect it. So, such a system that only allowed "permitted" files would really destroy any hope of modding this game has, and based off historical arguments, I'd say that's a pretty big no-no by this community's standards. Why? I suppose such a system could be implemented in a few ways. First off - the creators of the anti-cheat could update and maintain it, meaning that the entire system is relying on their diligence (so at some point in time when EA move onto other iterations, it'll turn to crap). Obviously this isn't the most sound economic solution, so the second best alternative would be to leave this "checking" to an arbitrary group; but what makes them in any more of a position to say what people should and shouldn't be playing with? No group of people outside the development team could, or should, be able to make such a decision. On a broader note, as I touched on before, the fact that every mod would have to go through an approval process is a horrid thought too. And then what? Get branded a cheater because some modder doesn't want to sit through a copious process to try his own thing out? *Pass* You ask the question - if they can maintain a list of bad files, why can't they maintain a list of "good" files. Really I'm surprised anyone has to ask this question, so I'll respond bluntly; the number of "good" files far out number the amount of "bad" files. It is an easier process to detect whether something has changed something it shouldn't have, rather than detect whether something is changing something it's allowed to. Also, if you join a server that's running a mod, that gives clan-members unlimited ammo and anyone else only 1 bullet, that isn't cheating. It's a modification ran on the server. I think you've got your wires crossed on the definition of a cheat. Is it unfair? Yes. Is it their server? Yes. They can run whatever they want, however they want, and should not have how they play the game dictated by arbitrary standards. They pay for their server, they've paid for the game; I don't see any reason what so ever to deprive them of playing in a style that suits them (with respect to server-side mods, which I assume you're talking about). If you don't like it, simply don't play there. I don't imagine it'd be a popular server if they do that, anyway. I think what EA need to do is implement something quite like VAC2. It's a brilliant system with their recent updates, because it allows server operators to run vanilla servers, such that when a client joins it automatically loads up a clean slate of the game (DoDS anyway), not requiring the user to sift through possibly many additional files and remove them (it's an automatic process and just loads up a fresh game, not removing anything). Bans are delayed and from memory it's primarily memory editing applications and changes to the core dll's that are detected. Server operators are given the option to change the level of security they want on their server, and modding isn't hampered. External applications that just stop everything that isn't "approved" are not a solution, especially when applications like DMW are beatable, and merely provide a false sense of security.
Remember that DMW caters to the competitive gaming community. They don't use mods, and generally don't play on servers with gameplay altering mods because when they play matches they can't use any mods, so it doesn't make sense to get used to playing with mods. People who play the game competitively are never going to use client side mods, and server side mods in a very limited way. Exceptions are verified and agreed apon custom maps and total conversions. Tbh I don't see that changing, so there needs to be 2 levels of protection for servers - pure and mods allowed. Pure obviously for competitive gamers, and mods allowed for more casual servers/gamers. I think in theory the verification of mods is a good idea, but in practice it would never work smoothly.
True about DMW being geared towards competitive players. But a serverside setting that allowed users to be forced to switch to a clean game (regardless of the files in their directory) would work just as well, without the need for an "approving" board.
no because autodownload would clearly download all the pk3's off the server, if the admin disallowed downloading yea maybe u have a funky client server side cheating going on. But honestly it would only be that server, so tell that admin hes a cheating **** and never play on that server, there would be many others to choose from. Client serverside "cheats" are a joke, it would only make people not play on that server... Mods dont seem to be a problem with PB on COD... You can put any mod up on ur server, have the client download it and turn on sv_pure and be cheat protected.
If I remember right most of the old AA hacks etc were OpenGL and external stuff that would never be picked up anyway. AA in comparison to most games was relatively hack free. Given the age of the game compared to BF2 for example that has PB and still is hacked to death. An AC would be good and maybe an option to run a server as pure so if you want no possible mods or cheats thats the way to go.
